Talk:House Rules

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Spell restrictions

It is ineffectual to deny the Weather school to mages, because nearly all of those spells are also found in the Air and Water schools. Kyle 21:40, 16 May 2012 (EDT)

Nearly, so it only restricts a few spells. So it shall stand for now, even if a small limit.GM 06:45, 17 May 2012 (EDT)

I removed the Weather restriction since literally every spell in the Weather college is also in some other mage college (Air, Protection, Water, Movement). Kyle (talk) 23:16, 7 October 2016 (EDT)

I am looking over the restrictions you put in place. I do think that we need to follow up on some of those. The area effect spell seems a little draconian. Fireball is one of the mainstream spells of fantasy RP. --GM (talk) 13:40, 7 October 2016 (CDT)

I mentioned it on one of the other talk pages, but I think we need to whitelist the spells not blacklist them. I'll put together a proposal soon. --GM (talk) 15:37, 7 October 2016 (EDT)

I was on the fence RE area effect spells, but I tipped towards a ban by reasoning that such spells are simply too dangerous in a small densely populated community. Perhaps they would be carefully restricted to a small cadre of Watch mages. Also finding 'new' spells Outside is an interesting adventuring opportunity. (What happens if the players find an 'unknown' spell Outside that the Watch knows but has kept secret?) But I am open to argument. As for whitelisting, I think there are just too many spells to do that, and there are a few entire schools which clearly need to be off limits. Kyle (talk) 21:35, 7 October 2016 (EDT)

I was looking more at the historical use. Whereas the utility might be limited for the area effect spells within the Enclave, they would certainly be in routine use for defense for the occassional incursion as noted in the history. So for a task mage to know such things and put for the effort to learn them might indeed be silly. It is certainly an option that the PC's would should be free to have. There are many of the spells that we blacklist that would be good ones for adventure hooks. I'll give the spells a runthrough for blacklisting as well then. --GM (talk)

Why add the Weather school back to the mages? This was, in D&D, the perview of the druids, yes? NM, see it above.--GM (talk) 19:43, 9 October 2016 (EDT)

Upon further reflection, I do like the idea of reserving largish-scale Weather/Air/Water spells. for clerics. Thus Waves, Clouds, Current, Tide, Wind, Rain, Snow, Hail, and Storm would be for clerics only, but mages would still get to use all the cool lightning combat spells, Weather Dome, Predict Weather, etc. What do you think, GM? Kyle (talk) 22:08, 9 October 2016 (EDT)

Changes reflected in new spell list finished today. Only took a few hours. GM (talk) 20:32, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

RE area combat spells, perhaps PCs just need to work in the Enclave Watch (even part time) to learn them? The Watch must have something like 'Army Reserve'  :) And then it makes more sense for some (well-trusted) task mages to have them too. Kyle (talk) 22:08, 9 October 2016 (EDT)

Reservists feels too modern to me, but I'm not strongly against the idea. Have at it :) GM (talk) 20:32, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

I concur with the Cleric assessment. For the combat spells, I don't think we need micromanage the affiliation and control of those spells via the Watch. As you said, the spells have little utility on the inside. Therefore, but for those who wish to go outside, there'd be not motive to waste the talent and time on learning futile spells. The control would be one of incentives. Any mage could take the time to master the fireball, but really who wants to spend time on a course of study that has no utility. Some oddly curious folks perhaps. Oddly curious folks are what the world is built on! --GM (talk)

I moved some spells as restricted from schools where they overlapped with mages to give something back to the Druids/Clerics. It was not much and subjective, but I really want to keep the grand scale weather alterations to the gods. If you find onese that I missed today, please add them as (R) spells in the appropriate schools.GM (talk) 20:32, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

I think Tide (like Current) fits with gods-only spells also (they seem grand enough scale to me, plus would be unknown to Enclavers anyway); I've restricted it. The restricted spell table looks great! Kyle (talk) 22:24, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

I read the Tide spell. It doesn't do what it sounds like it does. It just creates a localized hill of water. Well within the Water school. GM (talk) 10:18, 11 October 2016 (EDT)


Why forbid Gate and Movement? I am guessing that you conjecture that they would be destructive to the gameplay for their power level. I read throught them last night. There really does need to be a high level of specialization to get these off the ground and useful. To be able to fly for 2 minutes (90% chance of success) would require an investment of 62 CP from go or 17 points assuming IQ 12 and Magery 2. This would still mean after 17 points went in that you'd fail 1 time in 10. Not exactly odds that are good for the chance of living through combat. Speed is only twice that of full combat speed. Not a huge advantage to wholesale recon. For a mage to be able to fly indefinitely would cost 364 CP if he had Magery 2 and IQ 12. 132 pts if he pushed his IQ to 17 (100 CP) before. This would be at the cost of most every other skill gain that the character would get. Arguably a flying scholar with no other skills than flight would be a pretty darn poor recon. No ability to draw maps. No strategic background to make sense of what he saw. I think we need to rely heavily on the skill system and be sure that where a skill is lacking, the player cannot make up for it with his/her own knowledge or imagination. If making a sword of a quality to hold +6 enchantment would require weapon-smith skill of 25, a mage that can make fancy magic metals can't forge the right kind of sword without weapon-smith 25. He might save on materials in the end, but he had to spend years of his life getting to that point. The scope of CPs I think covers down on many of these balance issues. Though I've not yet solved the economical ones that will need be fixed through rule zero or simply ignored unless someone tries to game it bad. GM (talk) 14:11, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

Gate spells in particular seem to rapidly break the exploration theme of our setting - that's my main concern, rather than being overpowered. I reclassified the whole school as Unknown. And RE flight, groups of mages can collaborate to build powerful magic items (been a while since I read the exact details), so if Flight was known to the Enclave there'd be some flying carpets in the Crib already. I'm not thinking of permanently banning Gate/Flight/etc., though - they might get researched in the Magical Library, or found in an old tome in a ruined city, or something. Kyle (talk) 22:24, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

Limiting teleport and Magic Carpet is sufficient. There is ```no``` conceivable way that you are not going to have powerful people learn to fly. Nature is full of examples of what can be done. Teleport has no such teases in the natural world. As the the magic items. We need to downsize the mages in the enclave. In most places we say they are rare in power. So far as to infer that there may only be 1 or 2 with Magery 3. The ceremonial magic required to make magic items of size is huge. There is a literal exponential growth in the required power/skill to make big items. I think they won't exist in our realm. On that, I came online today to modify the Crib. There will be no 'Free' magic items as we have given. A single +1 to hit arrow has a base value of $850. So for the powers that be to equip players with a quiver of these beasties would be over $10,000. There had best be a near guaranteed return. Bottom Line: Enchantment is a real bitch when the power gets up there. So while we have a lot of low level mages about, they need have real power to do much. The minimum skill to enchant an item is 15. That is for both the Enchant Spell and the Spell that will be enchanted. It applies to each and every helper in the ceremonial circle. How many mages in the Enclave have Magery 2 and Enchant 15+? This before even considering the support spells. I would guess that maybe, if we put a strong mage council in place we might stretch that number to 12. If they had duties of running the university and lead roles in government, how often could they take months at a time off to create powerful magic items? GM (talk) 10:29, 11 October 2016 (EDT)

Since Magic Carpet is off the table (400 energy for a permanently enchanted small carpet that can carry a halfling and some gear indefinitely!), the cheapest longish-use Flight magic item I can come up with is a Ring of Flight with Temporary Enchantment (single use) and 3 points of Power (covers maintenance). Using the single charge would require 5 FP from the user (who has to be a mage) but after that, maintenance would be free (though I think it would cease when the mage goes to sleep, per spell maintenance rules). (2000 for Power plus 2500 for Flight) * 0.15 for Temporary Enchantment gives 675 energy. Doesn't seem worth ~2 mage-years of work unless it continues until deliberately canceled by the mage. Kyle (talk) 22:28, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
I think if we determine our active magic user population size, we'll know how much free mage time exists and many of these issues go away. But the persistance of magic means that we can draw upon a huge history to drop a hook wherever we may wish.Ric (talk) 09:45, 13 October 2016 (EDT)


I challenge you to break the game with the spells that are remaining in Gate if Planar Summons, Teleport, and Magery 3 spells are off the table. GM (talk) 10:47, 11 October 2016 (EDT)
After further review, that looks OK. A usually-cloistered NPC mage who's figured out Seek Gate would be a good adventure hook (spell indicates a gate deep in the Dwarven Catacombs or ~20 miles away Outside?). Kyle (talk) 22:28, 12 October 2016 (EDT)

Mana Level and Sanctity Level

Both are normal in all known areas. These are a tool for the GM to use in his/her adventures. As they are written in our knowledge of them might grow. Perhaps they will be sites of future settlement, but maybe not. Spells gone awry in High mana areas can level buildings :). Anywho. Baseline normal on both except for helping the story. They may or may not last after the adventure depending on the GM's intent. Ric (talk) 10:51, 12 October 2016 (EDT)

I'm wondering if there's a small high-mana area within the Enclave that helps power all the enchantments that keep it hidden. Kyle (talk) 22:28, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
I'll not close the book on this. It could be. I don't see that it is something that bears on current adventures and we can table it until one of us likes to write up all them juicy details. Falls under the needs of the GM at the time of adventure. It could be one that we permanently create in an adventure and it lingers around. I would say we need restrict knowledge of such an area greatly and use to 1, maybe 2, individuals that are beyond reproach and not likely to set off a cataclysm in a botched spell. This might well be the focal point for the spells of the defenses. The move of enclave residents to start moving out might be because this magic area faded to normalcy and that is why the defenses are harder to maintain....unbeknownst to the populace on a whole.Ric (talk) 09:45, 13 October 2016 (EDT)